Lesson - French Sounds (Pronunciation) - #11

[CFHollister]

Please see the following for introduction and citation information:
http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1101

Note: Letters that appear in red are those that appear with strikethrough in the original text.

Syllabication; Unstable e

Syllabication
In writing, it is sometimes necessary to separate a word into syllables. Here are the rules for syllabication of French words.
1 A single consonant between two vowels goes with the second vowel:
Pa/ris................. ma/da/me............ i/nu/ti/le

2 A consonant plus l or r goes with the following vowel:
ta/ble................ fia/cre................. re/pli/que

3 Double consonants are divided:
ac/cent.............. vil/la/ge.............. in/no/cent
tis/su................. vil/le.................. dif/fi/ci/le

4 Two different consonants are divided:
res/ter............... mer/ci................. per/mis
mon/ter.............. im/pas/se............ in/vi/ter
(The m or n of a nasal vowel stays with the vowel.)

5 ch, gn, ph, th act as a single letter:
tou/cher............. ga/gner.............. a/thee
gra/phi/que......... ath/lè/te

6 Three consonants force the last two to go with the following vowel:
cer/cle............... gas/tri/que

Many of those final syllables end in e, a silent e. Whatever sound it once ha, today it is merely a release or a stopping of sound. It forms a syllable, in writing, with the consonant that precedes, but it does not make a separate syllable in spoken French. You say:
ma-dame............ gas-trique........... im-passe............ table


Unstable e*
Language is made by people. People change their ideas about words; they use their words differently, and they misuse and mispronounce them. Over the centuries a language changes. Compare Shakespeare’s English or Chaucer’s with ours.

Language is always in a state of change. French is no exception. We have already commented on the fact that Parisians, in general, say ăng for ung nowdays. One of the most noticeable changes in pronunciation at present is the dropping of a certain e called the unstable e.

In the sentence “I’m not telling you,” several e’s are not pronounced. You say:
Je ne te le dis pas.
(zhun-tuhl-dee-pah… not 6 syllables)

Note these groups:
cette potre........... tu parles............. ils parlent

An unstable e must be pronounced in order to avoid saying three separate consonants at once.
Elle me plait
(el m pleh… impossible in French)
Say: el muh pleh

If you listen carefully to your teacher and to native speakers, paying attention to the rhythm of word groups, you will not have difficulty with this unstable e.
Le livre est neuf (luh leevr eh nuf)
Je n’ai pas de livre (zhnay PAHD leevr)

*Author's note at the request of a French speaker:
The unstable e's described in this section represent what is commonly spoken amongst native French speakers in common usage although it may not represent "true" or "proper" French in which unstable e's are in fact pronounced for sake of accuracy. The student of French should be mindful of the contexts in which they intend to use spoken French and should adapt his or her speach accordingly while remaining aware of both "common" and "proper" modes of pronunciation.

[garçoncanadien]

thank you for a great lesson

can you explain this to me?

In the sentence “I’m not telling you,” several e’s are not pronounced. You say:
Je ne te le dis pas.
(zhun-tuhl-dee-pah… not 6 syllables)

Note these groups:
cette potre........... tu parles............. ils parlent

An unstable e must be pronounced in order to avoid saying three separate consonants at once.
Elle me plait
(el m pleh… impossible in French)
Say: el muh pleh

I have no clue what are you talking about.

[CFHollister]

Originally Posted by garçoncanadien

thank you for a great lesson
can you explain this to me?
I have no clue what are you talking about.

Oh boy, and of the two of us I'm the one that doesn't speak French.

Since I don't know how to do strikethrough with this boards software I use red to indicate letters that have been crossed out in the original text I am reproducing these lessons from. In that section, the e's that are not pronounced (unstable e's) are indicated in red.

In the sentence "Je ne te le dis pas," the French student might be tempted to say: "zhuh nuh tuh luh dee pah" (six syllables). But the correct pronunciation includes the indicated silent, unstable e's: "zhuhn tuhl dee pah" (4 syllables).

The "notice these groups" just points ot some more silent, unstable e's.

The final part you quoted there illustrates an exception where unstable e's are pronounced... in the case where not pronouncing them as usual would force the speaker to pronounce 3 consonants without an intervening vowel, which is apparently not permitted in the pronunciation rules of French (though this kind of construction appears fine in English, German and a number of other languages). The example illustrates where the usually silent, unstable e in "me" as in fact pronounced to avoid the coarticulation of l-m-p without an intervening vowel.

Hope that helps

[SupaKrupa]

Maybe it's something to do with the way french people don't pronounce a lot of their written language. I've seen on many occasions people (including Alizée) say "Je ne sais pas" as "J'sais pas" from 4 to 2 syllables. But I could be wrong and probably am.

Edit: Nvm... Forums need autorefreshpage nowadays

[garçoncanadien]

i am an advocate of precise pronounciation you see what you have listed there for "Je ne te le dis pas" happens when we say that very fast, at the expense of accurate pronounciation. The gold standard (journalist pronounciation) most frequently pronounces each e, although they forget sometimes too so may i ask you to delete that portion because i would want everybody here to learn the precise pronounciation first, merci

SupaKrupa s'il te plaaaaiiiit include the ne in your speech. it is allowed to be omitted only in slang if you do not you have the risk of confusing the "ne/pas" construction with quite a few other similar constructions

[CFHollister]

Originally Posted by garçoncanadien

i am an advocate of precise pronounciation you see what you have listed there for "Je ne te le dis pas" happens when we say that very fast, at the expense of accurate pronounciation. The gold standard (journalist pronounciation) most frequently pronounces each e, although they forget sometimes too so may i ask you to delete that portion because i would want everybody here to learn the precise pronounciation first, merci

I'm not going to remove the portion of the lesson because each student's personnal goals for learning to speak French may vary. For students who wish to sound most natural in common settings, that information may be vital and shuold not be omitted. I have added an author's note which hopefully is to your satifaction. The introduction to that section does concede that one of the ways that languages change is through misponunciation and misuse and states that the unstable e's are an example of this. After all, "proper" French as it exists today (with its plethora of silent letters, etc.) would not exist as it does if it not had been for gross misuse and mispronunciation of the Latin from which it decended.

[garçoncanadien]

merci merci that's fine thank you for all your efforts

why are you fan d'Alizée "évidemment"? i thought it should be absolument plz explain me.

[CFHollister]

Originally Posted by garçoncanadien

merci merci that's fine thank you for all your efforts

why are you fan d'Alizée "évidemment"? i thought it should be absolument plz explain me.

Excellent, I'm glad you approve.

Maybe you can help me if I've mistranslated but it is supposed to read (if it were in English): "Alizée's Fan (obviously)" Fan d'Alizée is my MSN Messenger handle (and I like to keep my online identity consistent; that's why I've never changed my avatar of signature here). But if I'm a member here with well over 700 posts I figured the fact that I'm a fan of Alizée was fairly obvious, esp if one's read some of my more substantial posts. So I thought it was fitting. Again, if I've mistranslated, let me know.

[garçoncanadien]

aaaaaahahahaha good I was playing a blague with you That is fine indeed

[Ernest]

topic interesting . . .thanks guys we need some representative here so we knows more different languages . . .